Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir has recounted a memorable and surprising moment from his 1995 interview with global icon Nelson Mandela. During their conversation, the former South African president unexpectedly asked Mir a fundamental question: "Where is Pakistan?"
A Dream Interview Fulfilled
Mir shared this anecdote during a podcast, detailing how he secured an interview with Mandela during the Commonwealth conference held in Auckland, New Zealand. For Mir, interviewing Mandela had been a lifelong dream, stemming from his student days when he actively participated in demonstrations advocating for Mandela's release from prison.
In 1995, working for Daily Pakistan and writing a column for Roznama Pakistan, Mir was part of the delegation accompanying then-President Farooq Leghari to the Commonwealth conference. Upon seeing Mandela's name on the list of attendees, Mir seized the opportunity. He approached President Leghari, requesting a brief 10-15 minute interview with the anti-apartheid revolutionary, emphasizing the honor it would bring to Pakistan.
Leghari agreed to facilitate the meeting. The following day, Mir was informed of a 9 AM appointment. Before the interview, Mandela's private secretary, an African National Congress worker, inquired about Mir's motivation. Mir explained his long-standing admiration, stating, "I am the one who used to participate in demonstrations for the release of Nelson Mandela. It's a dream for me." He also mentioned having read Mandela's autobiography, Long Walk to Freedom, which helped confirm the meeting.
Mandela's Candid Admission
Arriving at Mandela's room, Mir, without his own photographer, borrowed a camera from a photographer accompanying the presidential delegation. The interview began with Mandela asking Mir where he was from. "From Pakistan," Mir replied. Mandela then asked, "Which country?" Mir repeated, "Pakistan."
It was then that Mandela posed the surprising question: "Where is Pakistan?" Mir, taken aback, began explaining Pakistan's geographical position, noting its proximity to India, Iran, and Afghanistan. Mandela recognized India but then offered a profound explanation for his lack of familiarity with the region.
"I spent 28 years in jail. So I lost my geography. I lost my memory. I don't know what is going on this world," Mir recalled Mandela saying.
Following this candid admission, Mandela, in turn, began to interview Mir, asking questions about Pakistan. He inquired about a "Deoband University" that he believed was causing problems in South Africa. Mir clarified that there was no such university in Pakistan. Mandela insisted, prompting Mir to ask the private secretary for clarification. The secretary explained that Mandela was referring to Deoband University in India, from which individuals were allegedly traveling to South Africa and radicalizing young people there.
By this point, Mir's allotted 10 minutes were almost over. He humorously remarked to Mandela, "I came here to interview you, but you’ve somehow started interviewing me!" The encounter left a lasting impression on Mir, highlighting Mandela's humility and the profound impact of his long imprisonment.